Started Looking at My Paso Project Bike

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:58 pm

Wasn't much going on Saturday evening, so I started messing with the Paso. Here's what I ran across....

1) Fuel tank had lots of gunk in it
2) Fuel tank petcock was partially clogged with junk
3) fuel pump ground was disconnected - fuel pump works when reconnected
4) several wires were disconnected
5) Pulled vertical plug and got spark.....and then the starter relay got stuck - I had to disconnect the battery to make it stop
6) The headlight fairing was being held on by some safety wire and the dash was held on by zip-ties
7) there is no recirculation line from the outlet side of the fuel pump, back to the tank.
8 ) I pulled the timing belt covers and the belts are the newer ones with red-lettering. The bearings/pullies for the fixed and adjustable tensioner have some surface rust on them. I plan on replacing belts and both sets of bearings/pullies.

Questions:
1) The headlight fairing only appears to only be held on by the two screws that join at the upper section of the tank. The panel under the dash doesn't help hold the headlight fairing on. Parts schematics and shop manual show nothign different. Shouldn't there be some type of other support for the headlight fairing?

2) How does the dash mount to the bike? The parts manual and shop manual didn't seem to be of much help.

3) Do I need to put a recirc line back on the fuel system with these Dellortos? Right now, the fuel goes from the tank, to the fuel filter, to the fuel pump, splits off to each carb, and there is a hose that ties each carb together. There is no recirc line back to the tank, but I feel that it needs one according to the original fuel line diagram and the fact that I am still using a fuel pump.

4) Anyone know of a good way to clean the tank of rust and dirt? Should I attempt to use Kreem or Por 15? Any way to clean it really well and maybe reseal the tank without damaging the exterior paint?

If my exhaust parts come in on Wed, I'll try to put the exhuast system back on the bike and see if it will start. It is almost looking like the bike not starting is a fuel delivery issue due to a dirty tank.

Thanks to any help you guys can give me.

Desmo Demon,
Terry

streetsurfer · Post by **streetsurfer** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:22 pm

I can help a little on Item 6, question #1, 2. The dash mounts via rubber isolators that have threaded studs on each end. They attach to the headlight cowl frame. The headlight fairing, I remember to be a bear to attach over the frame and dash without scratching the tank near where it bolts to it. The fairing rests on and around the headlight, while also being supported by two rubber"stoppers" attached to horn like projections on the front/top part of the support frame, along with the obvious attachements to the tank and rest of the fairing as you said. You do have that headlight and dash framework under the fairing don't you? The mention of zip ties and safety wire have me wondering.
I have the frame and isolators as spare parts. Maybe I will figure out how to post pics here today and be able to show what I am talking about later.
I am not sure what to do about #3 and #4. I sure hope that when you tackle the starter issue and clean the petcock it will start. I have the Weber on mine. As a side note I had the plastic tee (it was actually a "Y") in my line too. I saw mention of it elsewhere that they get brittle and break over time. I found mine to have a carb jet shoved inside of it. I assume this was their attempt at regulating fuel pressure to the Weber.

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:55 pm

streetsurfer wrote:The dash mounts via rubber isolators that have threaded studs on each end. They attach to the headlight cowl frame.

Sounds like mine are torn. I have similar isolators on my Harley for the battery box. It is a piece of rubber with a threaded shaft sticking out of each end. They are prone to ripping at the rubber. I'll have to double-check mine when I get home. If they did tear, I guess I'll have to order some more....assuming Ducati still offers them. I definitely would like to have the dash mounted correctly.

streetsurfer wrote:The headlight fairing, I remember to be a bear to attach over the frame and dash without scratching the tank near where it bolts to it. The fairing rests on and around the headlight, while also being supported by two rubber"stoppers" attached to horn like projections on the front/top part of the support frame, along with the obvious attachements to the tank and rest of the fairing as you said. You do have that headlight and dash framework under the fairing don't you?

Sounds like all of that is there, then. The headlight frame is there, and I recall seeing the two big rubber bumpers that you can speaking of. Once I detached all of the mounting bolts, the fairing just wanted to fall off the bike, which is probably why the previous owner put the safety wire there.

streetsurfer wrote:I found mine to have a carb jet shoved inside of it. I assume this was their attempt at regulating fuel pressure to the Weber.

My 1998 ST2 had a similar fitting in it when the California vapor canister was removed from the bike. The leftover hose came in handy when I replaced the gas line on my Harley in a parking lot, and fortunately, I noticed that restrictor before I used that hose.

I appreciate your response. I'm new to this Paso and the parts manual and shop manual can only help so much when you have no idea how well a bike was reassembled after being completely stripped to the bare frame (to powder coat it). I'm probably going to double-check every electrical connection and bolt torque before the bike ever hits the road, again. This will be an interesting adventure, anyway I look at it. Thanks!

streetsurfer · Post by **streetsurfer** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:15 pm

Here's the isolators next to an earplug for size referrance

.
I looked through my file but couldn't find a part number for them. Sorry, I though I had it.

qldman36 · Post by **qldman36** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:12 am

Have 4 NOS "dampers" that are slightly different[rubber portion larger in diameter and hour glass shaped]. Part # 70010131a. These were for 907, don't know if these are what you need.

Edit, kinda think if diameter of the pictured dampers is smaller then maybe clearance issue with mine.

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:38 pm

streetsurfer wrote:Here's the isolators next to an earplug for size referrance

I took the instrument cluster off the bike last night and discovered the in place of the three vibration dampeners, a previous owner had installed three rubber bumpers and held the cluster onto the bike with zip-ties. I found that all three of the original rubber pieces were broken off flush with the cluster, and I guess he didn't know how to remove them. The middle one actually had a rubber bumper attached to it with JB WELD! It was on the circuit board, but I was able to remove the threaded portions out of the cluster and get most of the JB Weld off of circuit board without doing any damage to it. The instrument cluster was wrapped in several layers of electrical tape and two or three types of sealants, and I cleaned all of that off, too.

Here you can see the tape and zip-ties, and between the tach and speedometers, you can see the rubber bumper with JB Weld...

The original instrument cluster vibration dampeners are called "silent blocks" and have a part number of 037033630, according to the parts manual for the Paso 750 that you can find on this site.

So......anyone believe I should stick a return line on the fuel system? If you look at the carbs, does this look like a normal Dellorto conversion (I think the one carb is too sideways, but I have no idea for sure)?

Here's another page I set up for some of the stuff I'm running into with this project, if you want to see what I'm dealing with....

http://www.desmodemon.com/paso_project.html

delagem · Post by **delagem** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:55 pm

I think you should eliminate the fuel pump entirely, and just plumb the petcock to the Dellortos. That's what I did with my Paso. Runs just fine up to 120mph, so clearly no fuel starvation issues. If you're really concerned, email me your fuel flow rate and projected HP, I'll find the formula I use to determine if the flow rate is sufficient.

New belts are always a good idea! I wouldn't worry about surface rust on the pulleys, a little scotchbrite will take care of that. While you have the belts off, try turning them by hand. If they don't turn smoothly, then replace them.

As far as the tank, the big mistake people make with Kreem is not prepping the tank well enough prior to putting the Kreem in. I used acid and a handful of bolts and nuts, shook it for about 1/2 hour. Then followed the directions on the Kreem. I have 2 bikes that I used Kreem on about 10 years ago, still no problems!

Perhaps you could talk to your local bike mechanic, maybe they know of a good shop that dips tanks. Otherwise, use the handful of bolts and acid.

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:40 pm

delagem wrote:I think you should eliminate the fuel pump entirely, and just plumb the petcock to the Dellortos. That's what I did with my Paso.

I had actually considered that, but was trying to use the fuel pump since it is there and is functional. BTW, how does your Dellorto conversion look? If you look at the carb for my horizontal cylinder, it just looks like the carb is too sideways, which I'd assume would effect the float and overflow. Does yours look anything like the setup on my bike?

delagem wrote:New belts are always a good idea! I wouldn't worry about surface rust on the pulleys, a little scotchbrite will take care of that. While you have the belts off, try turning them by hand. If they don't turn smoothly, then replace them.

Belts are a definite change, just for the insurance. I'm going to price the bearings and probably change them, regardless how they turn.....more a peace-of-mind reason that anything else. I'd bet they are the originals with over 29,000 miles on them, so I'd feel better to replace them. I'm probably going to change out all the wheel bearings and swingarm bearings for the same reason....eventually.

delagem wrote:Perhaps you could talk to your local bike mechanic, maybe they know of a good shop that dips tanks. Otherwise, use the handful of bolts and acid.

I was thinking of just cleaning it with nuts or bolts and see how that holds up without resealing the trank.....just knock all the loose stuff off. I'm hesitant to use Kreem or the Por 15, since I have no experience with them. I'd hate to screw up this tank, but I may check to see if any of my bike mechanic friends have used either and maybe get them to do my tank for a 12-pack or case of beer.

delagem · Post by **delagem** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:26 pm

WHOA! Dude! Is that carb vertical? Post a side view pic please! If I'm seeing it right, that isn't gonna work... Perhaps whoever put the carbs on put the bent mount on the vertical cyl by mistake?

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:09 pm

delagem wrote:WHOA! Dude! Is that carb vertical? Post a side view pic please! If I'm seeing it right, that isn't gonna work... Perhaps whoever put the carbs on put the bent mount on the vertical cyl by mistake?

That's exactly what I was thinking. The float bowl on that one is nearly vertical....not horizontal like I believe it should be, as I've never known a float to work vertically (meaning that the float pivot axis is normally horizontal, not vertical). I'll try to get a picture of it, tonight, when I get home. I do recall noticing that the intake runner that is bent more is on the vertical cylinder. The one on the horizontal cylinder looks practically straight. You have a handy picture of your set-up?........working on this Paso, so far, has me fully convinced that some people should NEVER work on mechanical/electrical things!

I'm afraid to see how these carbs are set-up/jetted. The previous owner said that he had issues with the front cylinder fouling plugs, but he took it somewhere and they "rejetted" it so it wouldn't foul the plugs. I'm guessing the carb was dumping so much fuel because of the wrong orientation of the float that it was flooding that cylinder. I have no idea what they could have possibly done to the carb so the bike would run. :ugh:

delagem · Post by **delagem** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:20 pm

I'm sorry, I don't have a pic of my setup, and I can barely see mine from under the headlight, but I remember mine having the bent intake on the horizontal cyl, and the straight on the vertical. Those were some nice wiring pix on your webpage, by the way!

I'd check the carb to see if they changed the jets or something, then review Skin's "Ducati Cuddle". I don't remember my jetting, but I do remember they both had the same jets.

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:41 pm

delagem wrote:I'm sorry, I don't have a pic of my setup, and I can barely see mine from under the headlight, but I remember mine having the bent intake on the horizontal cyl, and the straight on the vertical. Those were some nice wiring pix on your webpage, by the way!

I'd check the carb to see if they changed the jets or something, then review Skin's "Ducati Cuddle". I don't remember my jetting, but I do remember they both had the same jets.

I appreciate the help...I was hoping to fire the bike up without having to take the carbs apart, but it is looking like I may as well just take them off, clean them really well, check the jetting of them, and swap those intake runners......sounds like a rainy Saturday project. I have a "Fuel System" party one weekend and just replumb everything, too.

There's so much wrong with this bike, from one end to the other, I can nit-pick at it from every angle while I wait for parts to come in for something else. :laugh: It is still looking like the repairs will require mostly time, and not money, though.

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:34 am

Ok, here are two more pictures showing the carb mounted on the horizontal cylinder. Remember when looking at these, it is just like you'd see them if you were standing next to the bike. I did not angle these pictures in any way....

DesmoDog · Post by **DesmoDog** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:10 am

Those carbs aren't going to work like that. They can be at a slight angle, but that's just not right. I'm guessing the manifolds are on the wrong cylinders?

They should look more like this on a V-twin...

Desmo_Demon · Post by **Desmo_Demon** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:39 pm

DesmoDog wrote:Those carbs aren't going to work like that. They can be at a slight angle, but that's just not right. I'm guessing the manifolds are on the wrong cylinders?

Exactly!......Just as delagem and I have been discussing. I wqouldn't expect the float to be able to function correctly on that carb. Unfortunately, the previous owner said that he took it somewhere and they fixed the jetting problem with the front carb fouling plugs :ugh: ..... which means I've probably got two carbs that are jetted completely different. I may dive into the carbs in the next week or two....as time allows. I'm starting to dread what I may find and am starting my research on carb components, such as this link I found elsewhere on this forum....

http://www.herdan.com/dellorto/

Anyone else have any good sources for Dellorto parts?