Better starting behavior?

[JoKing]

Hi,

some time ago we had a thread here regarding some special heavy duty iring/harness for better engine-starting behavior.

I can`t find it now.
Who knows what i mean?



Cheers,
Johannes

[h1a]

This:
http://forums.ducatipaso.org/viewtopic. ... er+upgrade

[ducbertus]

Hello Johannes,

upgrading starting behavior is not difficult.
1) battery in perfect condition?
2) connectors of starterrelais not corroded? the rubber booth is famous for collecting water, ergo soaking the relais
3) startermotor itself in good condition? brushes, connectors
4) improving the leads from battery, everything to starter moter and very important from engine (rear side left) to the battery.
I use grounding leads from welding equipment. this is very flexible and ment for high current use. cross-section should be 16 mm2 of 25. for this I bought a high pressure hydraulic crimping tool.
5) you can replace the 70 Amp Hitachi relais by an 150 Amp relais of a tail gate lift unit. ( costed my a mere € 20) A friend of me used this relais on a 1000S2 bevelhead twin and was stunned by the result.

6) further I've an article from Laverda-guys replacing the 2 brush stator plate by a 4-brush plate. combine this with an additional internal ground lead out of the starter motor and you'll end up with an 907 starting up before you can press the starter button fully.

Bertus

[907pasonut]

Hello Johannes,

upgrading starting behavior is not difficult.
1) battery in perfect condition?
2) connectors of starterrelais not corroded? the rubber booth is famous for collecting water, ergo soaking the relais
3) startermotor itself in good condition? brushes, connectors
4) improving the leads from battery, everything to starter moter and very important from engine (rear side left) to the battery.
I use grounding leads from welding equipment. this is very flexible and ment for high current use. cross-section should be 16 mm2 of 25. for this I bought a high pressure hydraulic crimping tool.
5) you can replace the 70 Amp Hitachi relais by an 150 Amp relais of a tail gate lift unit. ( costed my a mere € 20) A friend of me used this relais on a 1000S2 bevelhead twin and was stunned by the result.

6) further I've an article from Laverda-guys replacing the 2 brush stator plate by a 4-brush plate. combine this with an additional internal ground lead out of the starter motor and you'll end up with an 907 starting up before you can press the starter button fully.

Bertus

hi Bertus,
i agree with most of your points, nothing worse than a bike struggling to start, but 5 & 6 might be a bit of an overkill...unless you want to start a centurion tank

[Derek]

Hi Bertus, I'm aware of most of the starter improvement points you mention but have never heard of fitting a high current relay. What a good idea. Why didn't think of that?
I'm most intrigued by the 4 brush conversion though have you got any details of this?

[paso750]

I`m wondering, why would a different relay make a difference ?
I can understand there may be others more reliable or the fact that`s it`s better just because it`s new but not really why it would have an impact on starting power.

G.

[ducbertus]

Hi Paso,

It's not the current rate that makes it interesting.
basically 70 Amp will do.
problem is that over time the internal contact points are deteriorating (burning in) and increase the resistance over time.
A friend of mine who owns a Bevelhead 1000 S2 started much better after installing a new relay.
This relay is quit a lump, but 150 Amp. for € 200 is pretty cheap.

Bertus

[streetsurfer]

I've put this out there before but in the interest of helping others, I will again.

I did go through a few things on my bike to hopefully improve starting, one being changing out the relay. I'd done coils which solved a plug fouling issue on the horizontal cylinder, but starting continued to plague me. I feel fortunate I never hurt the electronics, or wore out the starter or sprag with all the jumps, charging, or starting attempts.

I later switched to a yamaha relay match, but it did not improve starting by much at all. I found my 88's issue to be dirty and corroded contacts in the start button and off/on/off switch. If you're having problems those might be one first place to look.

You could sort out the wiring loom somewhere along the way and check across them. I just removed the switches from the bar and tested with a meter for voltage drop across the connection points there. The drop was the greatest at the switches, when compared to all other points in the start/ignition circuit. Cleaning them was my solution.

[ducbertus]

sorry, the relay was a mere € 20, and much cheaper than anytnign else.

But, as streetfighther statet, run through the circuits, measure and clean. this already solves a lot of problems.

Bertus

[persempre907]

I have had a great improvement in the starting behavior just replacing the stock battery with an Odyssey.
Really, a click on the start button is always enough.
Ciao

[Rogero]

ALWAYS hold the clutch lever in. Makes the engine work a lot less when starting.

Sometimes the simple things are the most effective, like a decent battery.

Roger

[907pasonut]

fully agree with the battery, or battery type, being the N:1 step for a better starting bike, i would never go back to lead acid again.
start the bike in neutral with a bit of accellerator advance (choke...but not a choke)...cold start, one, or two seconds, no problems

[JoKing]

I got a brand new battery in there.
And it started very well.
But now, it turns the crankshaft, turns and turs and turns, i`ve got sparking plugs, wet plugs, but it dos not fire up

[streetsurfer]

I got a brand new battery in there.
And it started very well.
But now, it turns the crankshaft, turns and turs and turns, i`ve got sparking plugs, wet plugs, but it dos not fire up

On the 750 of mine the power lead to the coils and electronic control units first passes through the solenoid, on to the start button, and then off/on/off switch. That's why when the two latter switches were grunged up the spark was too week to fire the bike and it kept fouling plugs, though it mostly affected the forward cylinder for some reason. It was sometimes starting but just running on one cylinder. Check you schematic (I'm not familiar with the 907IE), unless you've already cleaned the switches. If your coil feed takes the same route through the switches and a 6 pole connector first as in the 750, any of those may be your problem.

Patience, persistance, and a little prayer will pay off. Keep searching, and you'll get 'er figgered.

[ducbertus]

907 coils are fed over a relay, directly from the battery.
as Joking stated, there's enough juice in the battery
but maybe there is a faulty connector in the circuit. by measuring the voltage (+) on the coil you get an idea of the voltage drop. I would say 0.5 Volt is acceptable. more would make me suspicious.
Joking, you say you have sparks, remove the sparkplugs, cranck the engine for some time with the spark plugs out and the kill switch in off. doing so the motor get's dry inside. heat the plugs and mount them. start the engine wihout choke, but gently open throttle while starting.
what is the condition of your injectors and pressure in the petrol system?
if the pressure is too low., you get larger droplets of fuel and with low temps she refuses to start.

Bertus